tv Book Discussion on Pushout CSPAN September 10, 2016 1:20pm-3:01pm EDT
mingle, have another drink. the foundation is giving away copies of david's bro, but we want to encourage people to go online to go to powells bookstore and order copies for your family and friends. david will sign it for you. thanks very much. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> you're watching the tv on c-span2, television for serious readers and here's a look at what's on our prime time schedule tonight. we will kick off about 6:45 p.m. eastern with the john straw spot
as he details how the york city is full of the union during the civil war and at 7:45 p.m. it's a look at the lessons us presidents learned during their first year in office. at 9:00 p.m., nadia lopez discusses her work at a school-- her work as a principal and a school in brooklyn. alberto gonzales sits down for book tvs afterwards program discussing his new book. it's about his time in the george w. bush administration. and we wrap up book tv at 11:00 p.m. with political cartoonists discussing his use of donald trump is a character in his comic strip doonesbury. that all happens tonight on c-span2 book tv. >> this gives me great pleasure
to welcome you to this particular conversation this evening. the center for arts and culture teams up with the new press to present "pushout: the criminalization of black girls". this conversation is deeply meaningful to both restoration and the new press as we share a commitment to amplify and spotlight marginalized voices and stories. we want to thank diane and the new press team, particularly for their incredible partnership in tonight's conversation. thank you so much. a round of applause, please. [applause]. >> also want to note that books are for sale following tonight's conversation to my left and drove right. gloria steinem, activist, writer and journal wrote about "pushout", if you ever doubted
that supremacy crimes, those who voted to maintaining hierarchy are rooted in both and sex, read "pushout". monique morris tells us exactly how schools are crushing the spirit and a talent that this country needs. guiding us through tonight's conversation is cheryl watson harris, senior executive director for new york public schools. she will be speaking with tonight's author, doctor monique morris, please join me in giving these two women a real warm welcome. [applause]. >> tonight's conversation would not be complete without hearing some of the voices of the young women from doctor morse's research. to bring us these voices is actress colby christina from
restoration youth arts academy. we present, "pushout: the criminalization of black girls". [applause]. >> this was the cry of 14-year old jerry a becton who in the summer of 2015, was thrown to the ground as well as physically and verbally assaulted by corporal after she refused to leave her friends at the mercy of this law enforcement officer in texas. a video, which later went viral showed him pushing her face in the ground as it she, a slight framed barefoot bikini-clad teenager who presented no physical threat or danger screamed for someone to call her mother for help. the video showed him grinding his knee into her bare skin and
restrain her by placing the full weight of his body onto hers. the incident was violence and reeked of sexual assault. overtones that were later deemed inappropriate, out of control and inconsistent with the police departments policies, training and articulated practice. though he resigned in response to the public outcry and internal scrutiny associated with his actions, the image of her helpless, frightened body under his had become one of the snapshots that call her public consciousness to examine the overzealous policing and criminalization of black youth. though, media, and advocacy efforts have focused on the extreme and intolerable abuse cases involving black boys such as 17-year old trey von martin and ford and 12-year old to mere rice in ohio a grooming-- going above cases involving black girls have service to review what many of us have known for centuries.
black girls are also directly impacted by criminalizing policies and practices that render them vulnerable to abuse, exportations, dehumanization and under the worst of circumstances .-dot. example, 18-year old should make what proctor died in police custody after she was arrested for disorderly conduct. even in high-profile cases involving boys we often fail to see the girls who are there alongside them. after the fatal shooting of tamir rice the officers tackled his 14 euros for searches ground and handcuffed her. not only had she just watch her little brother die at the hands of the officers, but she was forced to greet his death from the backseat of a police car. addressing these problematic narratives have proved difficult in the current social environment, one that embraces punitive responses to expressions of it dissent and increasing surveillance of the home where families live, communities where children play in the schools where children are educated. >> welcome everyone to
"pushout", a conversation with doctor monique morris. as parents, educators, sisters, brothers, community leaders i know we are all excited to engage in the thoughtful and powerful conversation with dr. morris. as we examine the injustice that black girls experience in schools and beyond and also have the opportunity to hear her thoughts about how we change this narrative. is my true pleasure and honor to introduce doctor monique morris. doctor monique morris is an author and social justice scholar with more than 20 years of professional and volunteer experience in the areas of education, civil rights, juvenile and social justice to dr. morris is the author of african-americans by numbers in the 21st century, too beautiful for words and "pushout". she has written dozens of
articles, chapters and other publications on social justice issues and lectured widely on research policies and practices associated with improving juvenile justice, educational and social economic conditions of black girls, women and their families. dr. morris is the cofounder and president of the national black justice institute. she is also the former vice presidents for economic programs , advocacy and research at the national association for the advancement of colored people in the former director of research for the henderson center for social justice at uc berkeley law school your current work has informed the development and implementation of improved cultural, culturally competent and gender responsive continua. doctor morris is a research interest x-rays, gender,
education and justice to explore the ways in which black communities and other communities of color are uniquely affected by social policy. i think i speak for everyone in the room when i say thank you to doctor morris for writing this book and beginning this very very important conversation. so, tonight we will have the opportunity to ask doctor morris some questions about the book and i will engage in a conversation with doctor morse and at the end of the program we will open it up to the audience who i know also has probably a lot of questions they would like to ask about the book and some of doctor morse is thoughts on how we change this narrative. >> hello, everyone. >> welcome. in "pushout" you reference edward w morris in the 2007
study it is found that black girls in the classroom are perceived as unladylike and loud talk about your thoughts on combating the stereotypes of the loud black women. >> it's interesting how we have come to understand the identity of black women and girls and much of the discussion about "pushout" is centered in a critique of the way in which the black amendment in identity has been presented publicly and also in our scholarship and unconsciousness. when i talk about school push out i talk largely about the policies, practices and prevailing consciousness that underlies how we approach girls in our spaces and how we understand who they are, what they're capable of and who they ultimately will become. that study is a profound one for me because it does begin to agitate much of the consciousness around how we
understand these attendees as they have a lined with historically constructive stereotypes especially in the age of social media where it dominates our understanding of what's occurring. we see a way in which the identity of black girls and women is presented as again either consistent with being hypersexual, consistent with being loud and a sassy or being consistent with being the masquerading angry presence and also the latest one which is some common nation of all, which we have referred to as ratchet, but can also be interpreted in many different ways and so this way in which we have misrepresented and misunderstood the black feminine identity plays into our subconscious, our unconscious biases about how we read behavior, so when girls are asking questions in class or when girls are questioning
material it is often perceived as being an affront to the authority of the adult in that space are being combative or defined in ways that are inconsistent with their true intention and in some ways again, given the legacies and misreadings that accompany the behavioral patterns we also see this way in which this hyper sexualization of black girls prevents us from responding to their trauma and victimization and that's problematic. >> i'm just curious with those of you the audience, how many of you have had a similar experience? does that resonate-- resonate with you? again, we had a great conversation even before the session about these are the conversations that have been happening outside of the meeting and now hopefully this will be a platform of conversation that can really affect policy. so, thank you again for that.
the next question, in the book the book talks about girls with kinky hair and how it violates the dress code and discipline parents. how should we address racist dress code forbidding natural hair, punishing curvy women and how should these girls dress? >> so, this is a tricky question about how girls should dress. it's always interesting when i talk about-- and when i revisit how i used it to dress and when i think about my two daughters and their presentation and how i recognize that much of the way in which adults enforce the dress code is done through what they perceived to be a spirit of love, so there are places in this country where schools have dress codes that disallow natural hairstyles to be, natural hairstyles if you are of african descent, so no afro's,
no cornrows, no locks took many of this people in this room would not be able to go to school with our hair the way it is and is so obviously and i say this pretty explicitly in the bill, those policies need to be removed to. there is no place for there to be a regulation of individual cultural practices around here and has nothing to do with how individuals learn and it disproportionately impacts black girls. the dress code is an interesting piece. got a different component to it because not only is it about whether girls are showing up in short shorts or have shirts for a spaghetti desperately step tank top it's about pleased him girls bodies in many ways and much of what i discuss in push out is related to how there is a differential implementation of the dress code, not necessarily
that the dress code exists, but how that adults are enforcing the dress code that renders black girls vulnerable repletion of their body, not necessarily their clothing, so there are girls who tell stories about arriving in school in short shorts. they have a white or asian counterpart wearing the same shorts, but it's a problem on her body and she is sent home and when girls protest against this treatment the way that many girls are inclined to do they get an additional reprimand and so that to me is critical for how we come to understand what the dress codes are intending to do versus what they are actually doing and how we abuse the dress code to determine who is capable of entering this space of learning and use it as a way to turn certain populations away. i recently-- i have a research project that we are working on a partnership with the georgetown law center on poverty at and inequality and we are having a
discussion about school resource officers and girls in color, so we went to a southern city to begin to conduct research and many of the police officers in the school talk about how they are asked to intervene in dress code violation cases or where they will informally engage with girls and interact about whether they are dressing appropriately and some administrators will say i will turn go away if she does not come with a pink shirt, our dress code is pink, not blue, so in my mind really what are we emphasizing here? we have lost prioritization of learning and have come to prioritize enforcement of rules around address and that is taking us away from the true intentions of schools and certainly the role and function of an institution. i talk in "pushout" about what schools are capable of being in the life of young people and critical to this conversation for me is the understanding that education is a critical protective factor in the legal
system, so that is rarely notice we should be doing everything we need to do to keep girls in school, not finding creative ways to turn them away and so when we are doing this and we are having these conversations about dress codes and whether a girl is showing up in a hat and that's reason for her to leave, we have taken this conversation about the true intention of schools and turned it into-- you know, it's important for us to think through these constructs as they emerge, but also critically examine the function of what schools are. schools can either reinforce social norms and societal norms or they can engage young people in the practice of learning skills to combat their own oppression and the internal lives. many schools that are century of thinking, better instilling in our children the knowledge that they need to be productive members of our society and
citizens in our spaces are not the schools that are enforcing dress codes and turning people away because they are showing up with a hat on and for black girls in their particular nuances around that because a black girl may show up with a hat on because her hair is in the process of being braided and for those of us who have braids in the past or singles know that that can be a two day process and so if a girl shows up with a hat on, but have her hair is done and you tell her to take that had off, she will not take that hot off, so she will opt not to be in class and we don't have these conversations around the competencies, cultural competencies as well as the unintended or i won't even say unintended because at this point we have enough information to know so i was a undesired consequences associated with implementing dress code the way we have been doing across the country.
>> i won't even ask you to raise your hand at that because i can tell that the nodding of the head. i think parents and educators can tell you a story for every story that you told us there, so thank you so much for starting the conversation. in the section asking the tough questions you mentioned that we live in a man's world and how would this oppresses strong women. the book talks a lot about white society and what role black men play in the systematic oppression of black women. >> we heard that. let me back up as i answer that question. i was in a detention facility talking to girls while researching "pushout" and before i could say much of anything i came in contact with this girl who i call faith in the book and that was her opening question to me, so she said you know that
song this is a man's world and i said yes and she said i don't like about song and i said i don't like it either. why don't you like it and she said because what does that say to a strong girl like me and i processed that for years thinking about what was she trying to tell me; right? i processed it with my friends and one of my friends had an interesting perspective saying she was tried to tell you to recognize her strength pitch she was telling you i see you and i want you to see me. i'm a strong girl to that's why she hit tea with that first. she's like i have feelings, do you see me and once i acknowledge that i saw her, then she was able to question whether that song was reinforcing norms in our society and in our community and in our homes about the focus of power and control and the ways in which our public
discourse has even embrace this idea that in order for a family to be whole, a person to be whole there has to be a male presence. this girl did identify as a gay girl-- that's what she called herself. she had had detention in the detention facility around that and so i think for her she was processing a lot about identity. one of the things i intentionally do in the spaces engage in intersectional lands-- lands to understand that there are multiple experiences guiding one's engagement with systems, with people and that for this girl having to sit in a space where the conversation publicly was about the conditions of males, the priors-- pride towards his station of dollars in the community and the absence of men in conversations about
girls was also present in her life. really, to me, plays out in her asking that question and the exchange we had about that. many times, you know,-- historically i say historically" because it's been within the last 10 years when i have been one of maybe three women who has been asking the question what about the girls, what about the girls, what about the girls and its match with silence and there has not been a robust engagement among men to engage in no space and in many ways the pushback that i have received has come from men who want me to be quiet while we prioritize the boys and others in the space to engage in the conversation about supporting men and boys. i have long said that the investment that was made in men
and boys of color, black men was a necessary investments and i think it was important to have these conversations and he continues to be important that these conversations. it's also important to have the conversations about the women and girls and that's where i have been in this space and where i will remain until we bridge conversations about the communities that we share, the institutions we share, the surveillance we share and the acknowledgment that while the structures are impacting both of us or anyone along the gender continuum in similar ways the impact is different and our responses have to be tailored to those impacts. they have to be gender responses they have to engage in the own functioning around intersection alley in order to appreciate that there are certain experiences that women and girls are facing that will allow us and require us to critically engage men and boys in those conversations are not happening i hope-- in some communities we
need to get there and i say in "pushout" that i do intend for this to be the beginning of a more robust conversation and engagement around these issues, but one of the first things that needs to happen is that that men need to be able to engage. there are lots of, you know, at the root of a lot of this is the sexual but commiseration and violent of women and girls. the girls who are most at risk of push out our risk of expressing multiple forms of oppression and until we engage our full community and the conversation about how we have primed by girls from their own victimizations from the song we sing as six -year-olds in yards and school campuses to how we come to engage them as scholars and learners in ways that render them invisible or that elevate them to a point where we've got this sort of really dichotomous narrative, this way in which we see black women of being super successful high achievers on one
end and get overrepresented among girls who are pushed out of school on the other and disproportionately represented among girls who are sexually exploited or not but his girl for years in some cases. we have not really reconciled this space and part of that really has to do with their absence of a narrative and discussion about the continuum and about what will we are all plain facilitating this consciousness that either ignores or only sees success. >> i think that's why everyone is here. we are just as that you were creed is enough to open up this dialogue with "pushout" and you have-- you are pretty much the one we have been waiting for to open up the dialogue and i think that's why this book is so popular. i had a chance to share with dr. morris and at the time i tried to order it it was not even in
print yet. we ordered the book probably three and four months before the book came out because we agree with you when we are thankful we are having this conversation. >> i do want to acknowledge there are a community of mostly women who are been engaged in this work. there have-- before "pushout" i was involved in some way and is sometimes not as a community we are engaged in conversations, african-american policy form produced black girls matter and it was the publisher of a paper that i wrote in 2012, that was on race gender and the prison pipeline and also the national women's law center and the legal defense fund issued a paper on unlocking opportunity for african-american girls that examine these issues and the human rights for girls, georgetown law center on poverty and inequality produced a report on the sexual abuse in prison pipeline, so there are lots of
folks who have been trying to engage and academics who have been able to see a little bit, but you know, there is still research and absence of critical engagement around this resources and materials and a way to center black girls in a conversation about the full continuum anyway in which we begin to assess risk, threat and response. >> and i thank you for the resources that are actually in the book so there are other studies. i encourage us all to read and research. i think another piece of the book that is so powerful is the stories you told us about the girls. i would love to hear a little bit more about diamond from jezebel in the classroom. can you tell us more about diamond? >> diamond was a young teenager who is in a relationship with a much older man who she called her boyfriend. he was not her boyfriend.
he was her pimp. she was commercially, sexually exploited and i have met her again in the detention facility. this was a girl who had a problematic relationship with school and who had been moving in and outs, hadn't really had the kind of critical response to her victimization that she needed, but was in desperate search for it. what happen with diamond is that she was spotted out on the street by some of her classmates who later in school started to bully her and teaser about seeing her out on the street. the way she put it was they would always try to make me fight them. so, the response was certainly one of conflict and the school failed to recognize the ways in which she had been bullied and instead captured her as a problematic person who was always fighting. when she had had enough she
engaged in an act of vandalism and she wrote on the walls, which resulted in her expulsion and so by her being expelled from school she was now in violation of her conditions of probation, which required her to go to school and so there was a cycle in her case where not only was her victimization not addressed by a mandatory reporting agency that should have recognized her engagement as a function of her abuse, but the structural justice system response was to criminalize her and to push her further away from the very institution that could help her heel. so, for her by the time, you know, i met with her and engaged with her she was in a space feeling like i need out. i have not been in school. i love this man and so we dug a little deeper with that relationship and others who are experts in working with girls to get them to engage in the ways
that are helpful in that space. worked with her around that, but she was sort of processing in and out and i asked her finally really, you know, what she needed to be in school and she told me i need people who care and so finally i asked, so aside from a counselor who would be there how do you think schools in general could better respond to black girls in crisis. >> let's take a listen. >> usually the teacher like will only connect with certain students that think they deserve more because they get straight a's took there is a reason why they are getting straight a's, because they are faster learners. you-all are teaching them more. they study more and are getting more attention than other kids. like black kids at home, we don't get that much attention. are mother and dad are working. our sister is taking care of us. our auntie, grandma is taking
care of us. we don't have that attention that we want from our parents. that makes us disrespectful in class and makes us feel like, i don't care if i see my mom, i don't see you. you are not my mama. >> i wonder if we-- if we see that in our girls. >> so, it's interesting because with diamond when she responded that way instantly i was like, of course like mothers and fathers are involved in their children's education and the data does it show that black parents are engaged in asking children about homework, checking homework, you know, having conversations. they may not show up at the school the way we might traditionally envision, but i'm sure many of the people in the room are going what, like that's inconsistent with my experience. it was important to include that narrative in the book because
for many of the girls who have experienced school push out or high risk of push out are not in a stable homes, environments where they do have the parents who are continually intervening and in that narrative she is also pointing to her desire for there to be a caring adults who is checking on her, who is asking her and went on adult presents in a parental way when you have not established that important student teacher relationship it's seen as fake. the one thing about the piece of this that i went to uplift as being part of how we come to understand the cultural competency element that is connecting is the space around intuition and in much of my work with black girls particularly in the more scholarly pieces i have written on sacred inquiry and how we engage with black girls, this notion of intuition cannot be lost. girls will describe responding to energy and knowing if someone
is real and they use language that might on the surface appear to just sort of be, this girl has an attitude, which is my other favorite word. you know, but really they are expressing that they are connecting or not connecting at a very physical level and one that is associated with how they are perceiving to be authentic or not authentic, that you are not my mama is really about her saying i want my mother, first of all. butts, secondly it's really about saying you have not built of the trust with me. you have not connected with me in a way that allows for me to trust in you, that you have my best interest at heart. so, that takes time for us to fully split, but it also takes time for us to deconstruct a little bit particularly among girls that have been commercially sexually exploited and having relationships with older people and what-- might
want to see themselves as acting and older ways that she needed a space to just be a child. she needed a space to explore her own identity as a learner and unfortunately, found her again in a detention facility where she has been criminalized or much of this was not great but where it could occur where their different interventions that took place along the journey. >> very powerful section of the bill. stay with that of that more, in the section jezebel in the classroom goes into detail about prostitution and classroom specifically in the section "the real". how comparison educators bring out thedashing up the subject of teenage prostitution and should adults wait for the behaviors to be present or shut the topic be brought up regardless? >> so, one of the things i want to acknowledge is that there is no such thing as a teen prostitute or a child prostitute , that these are children who are being commercially sexually exploited
and there's a lot of language adjustment that we are engaged in now as a community to better understand what the conditions are for these girls. that's important here because in the lives of many black girls in particular again given the legacy of hyper sexualization and this notion of a jezebel, people will read them as choosing to purchase a in this life as opposed to seeing this as an active harm. so, schools, educators may not know that there is a young person who is at risk or who is actively engage particularly because in my experience many girls don't actively identify and certainly won't be like mrs. so-and-so guess what, but there is a way in which school environments have conversations about healthy intimate partner relationships in the girls are asking for that. it's kind of interesting because
there is a lot of debate about whether there should be sex education in school and debate about who controls the conversation ended those spaces, but again when girls are having an opportunity to engage with each other in safe spaces about intimate partner relationships and about how they should be engaged in school and how boys are engaged in conversations about healthy intimate partner relationships, then you see different outcomes, but there is also or there should be segments of the district code that's really do guide educators on how to engage if they suspect there is a girl or a boy in their environments that is either being commercially sexually exploited or at high risk of commercial sexual exploitation and we know from data children in foster care are at increased risk and we know that many times in our educational system that we capture those kids is
chronically truant. new data from the us department of education talked about the more than 6 million children who are chronically truant in my immediately reaction to that was take a closer look. like if we are talking about chronic truancy where also talking about a host of other risks and so we can just as it education system say they are truant and therefore out of our care and that's how we recorded them. we also have to have the critical partnerships in place with other agencies to make sure we are getting those kids back in because when they are in school they are at a reduced risk of harm, that's not to say that harm does not occur. there are local cases and national cases that involve girls who have experienced commercial sexual exportation, physical, sexual exportation and violence in schools and where there have not been an equal protection place for them and a critical way for the community to address these issues. some of the cases have been covered up.
there is a routine way in which there is a dismissal of the sexual victimization of black girls that we must confront, but these are questions, these are important dialogues that have to take place in their cases of learning because it impacts their life, so we can no longer afford to say that some issue in other words. it's really everyone's issue. >> just thinking about working in the school department and we have a lot of work to do and a lot of questions that we need to ask that we are not currently asking, so i thank you for that and also thank you for that check on the phrase teenage prostitution and i think we have to be courageous to check each other on language and recognize how powerful that is in the impact it can have on others, so thank you. >> no, thank you. i say that knowing that we are in a moment of transition. the associated press just agreed to use that term commercially
sexually exploited youth instead of child prostitution because when you look at the headlines before, just months ago that's what you would see and it frames our consciousness and feeds into the prevailing consciousness that i was talking utterly on. >> so, going back on the conversation about disciplining appearance, again. you brought it up again into sexy for school. does the media play a role in overly sexualizing-- excuse me, overly sexualizing of black women and if so should we limit children's exposure to over sexualize representation of black women, music video, reality tv or limiting exposure with a form of shaming. >> so, there are two spaces where the conversation is happening and it's interesting to me how those are playing out. one is as a mother i absolutely believe in censorship.
i also believe in processing where there is no censorship. so, have always believed and i think it's important for us to engage the healing power of the narrative. tell the story. talk. there's a lot of shut off, turn down without discussion. that cannot be. you are not getting it we all know it will get collected from someplace else that we may not wanted to be collected from, but it's important conversations about that. eyed and age-appropriate level, sought a certain age i believe in censorship. after a certain age, think it's important to have discussions about what it is. .. ..
when we are talking about girls and how they present in school it's really a comment on her body. we have to call ourselves out for that and we have to talk about ways of getting around that. one of the things i recommend is really to engage in co- constructive policies. the places where there are conversations happening with the girls about what the norm should be in place for them to feel safe and for them to not be punished for being perceived as a distraction. and where other girls are most respectful.
i started with the narrative. what kind of climate they need. and it might be inconsistent with what we believe. >> i think it is something i'm taking away. the charge for us to educate ourselves about alternatives and other resources in images and things like this that our children would be interested in but to make sure that were aware of them so we can offer them as a counter narrative to what we are seeing. a lot of the ways in which we see young people engaging are a reflection of what's happening in our community. we hear it on the trains we see it on buses on my way
here. i have a group of boys some girl who was doing sexual acts in the bathroom at her school. the way they were talking about it i was at the urge to intervene. it was illuminated to me. no problem talking quite loud on the train about some girl who was doing something and there was no ownership at all about how they were framing that relationship and then exchange or how that might negatively impact her. they were naming names. that will result in something that could happen on the school grounds that can then lead to some other conflict. and to me that's part of the result of not having the kinds of conversations that we need to have about how we are engaging with each other and
what is what is appropriate in learning spaces outside of whether or not a person is dressed appropriately there are other ways of demonstrating to young people what is appropriate for time and place. schools have occupational field trip days. you can dress appropriately when they do career days. there are ways in which other schools that don't had dress codes emphasize this is how you dress in these conditions as opposed to saying you don't have a belt on. these are the cases i'm talking about. your shoes have a swoosh they shouldn't. these things that are turning girls away that they described to me are unconscionable. >> thank you. and the struggle to divide it was common for black women to
rebel against authority and discipline. but how do we get modern contacts and keep things in perspective for black girls when it comes to oppression versus routine discipline. when do we tell our girls punishment is just outrageous. >> i think it's very important to head conversations with children very early on about oppression. i come from the school that challenges our thinking around oppression and one of the things she says is that there is no hierarchy of oppression. but many times in the lives of girls they are asked to prioritize their oppression they have to be black first female second where they have to be female first then there sexual identity is second. there is some way we ask them to prioritize this to fit what we need them to be. and when we are talking about
these conditions and when we are talking about facilitating conversations that are ultimately going to produce new outcomes and new narratives for girls those consequences can be healing they don't have to be about punishment they can learn from their mistakes they are worthy of that. and the si message that black girls receive especially if they are in high poverty schools and when they are in the schools we have a structures in place that emphasize discipline partly because those leading schools that discipline and punishment is the way that you respond to these conditions. i have a very spirited conversation with some folks on interview in the south
recently where there is the belief that spare the rod and spoil the child. there are deep-seated ideas about what discipline looks like and one of the colors for this station said we need more corporal punishment like i was like help me. the issue here is not just that we have the structures in place although that it has no place in schools we also see a differential impact their represented. it means that we are more inclined to beat black girls that we are other girls. were more inclined to beat black boys where does that come from. how do we unlearn that you must be abusive in your response violence in response to negative student behavior
and then get mad later on in life when they use violence in response to conflict. we have to think about how we are routinely and acting and reinforcing the social norms or actively engaging in the process of confronting and deconstructing those things. >> i was struck by the whole concept did you want to say more. when i talk about developing a new ecosystem for girls for them to feel whole in schools emphasize healing. we talk in our practice more publicly about restorative approaches and we tend to embrace those practices and talk about the circle practice in particular as a way to engage young people in conflict resolution and all of that i think has a place in the healing process but there
are other ways also in which to construct healing spaces. one has to do that the development which does include restorative practices. they were having cooperative discussions with young people in the development of co- creating climates of safety but there's also the healing informed classroom that is really about how you center education as an active social justice and critically engage their well-being of black women and girls in conversation about building democracy. in conversations about what it is to be a whole learner and who needs to be in schools to make that happen. the college and career readiness is a component of that. particularly for girls who are most at risk for those girls
including those who have been exploited that put them in touch with this they need money and they have to see the connection between other education and how they will earn money and we have to be very transparent about that. a mini spaces we say just learn. in the ability to trust the process enough to just let's go is not fair. they have to see the connection between what they are learning today and habits can result in their economic well-being in the very near future. and the device learning component is also critical there. there has to be a deconstruction of the internalized oppressions. what tools are we using how are we engaging in conversations. the kinds of conversations that need to be held so we can assess risk and appropriate ways that we can engage in
conversations about whether a child is actually a threat to public safety or whether we don't like how she talked to me. we have to figure out these pieces and then work within that structure to develop a new set of norms. and sometimes it just begins with asking different questions. whether there are assumptions whether our structure have considered their life experiences and what processes are in place for them to be a part of the construction of a new narrative. >> we could say on this probably all night. i think that the book also gives us an opportunity for those discussions as well. another thing i really loved about the book was the 3d experience for the girls and
also the diversity it wasn't just one type of girl or one walk of life i would love to hear a little bit more about destiny and struggling to survive could you tell us a little bit more about that. she was a high performer. she someone who i meant. she had been taking ap courses have it interest in robotics and engineering. and she have an addiction. in that justice system responded to that by incarcerating her. she talks about her experiences with schools because she understood the importance of school in her life but she was also discouraged from engaging in her school because of her interactions with some of the teachers. our conversations she just
emphasized the importance of student-teacher relationships when i talk to her about the various relationships she's head and finally i just ask her what did they do they say to black girls what do they say to them. let's take a listen. >> because there are a few black people on campus they get special attention in class like if they're struggling or if they want to see the teacher after class i noticed the teacher will be more than willing to help them after class. >> usually they will say something like while you can stop by for ten or 15 minutes but i'm not can await an hour just for you. they just did it for the asian girl. there's a lot of indian people
there. and they will stay after school until 5:00 doing extra work or working on an extra project will be there for ten to 15 minutes just to talk. i try tied to talk to my geometry teacher after school and she would just really rushed me. she just wanted to rush me to hurry up and get me out of the classroom. nevermind. i will just see you in class. i think we have it similar experience with my own daughter. we have almost the identical experience in school and what that really did to her. she comes home she did not even want to go to school the next day.
how may people had have an experience like that. i think we're all finding ourselves in the book. i think it's important we tend to construct a single identity about black girls and for that reason it was important for me to engage the narrative to talk through girls who were african-american but also afro caribbean and to get us to a place where we can understand the diversity of experiences but how there is a common theme associated with a lower expectation. we've often seen this before. in to use a term or a phrase that they use. the way in which we grant them positions --dash make
permission to fail. it's a critical piece for us. i don't believe and in i said this in many public spaces i don't believe in throwaway children. we tend to construct these narratives as they fight. they got an attitude if they wear short were short shorts they are another word i don't use it's important for us to to check ourselves but also for us to engage those girls. how they need to be a part of the construction of a new narrative. number one i saw the absence of girls and a national in a national conversation about the well-being of communities. but also because again my interactions with girls in
order to do that you kind of have to go straight to the source. there's a way in which you can go to the source. girls on the subway. girls in down the hall. it is really to begin to think through the alternative. before we open it up for questions we talked about this a little bit in social economics. i just had one question there. one in four black women lived in poverty. how can we as a community work with young black women to change and challenge the
statistics. and how can women who already live in poverty it's not that they directly result in you been out being out of poverty. we have some focus groups with girls who talk about this. and clearly understanding there were some barriers associated with this. but in my other work there is also a discussion about they didn't get as girls and they found ways to live in the condition of poverty one of
the things that i include it is the q&a. it is a discussion with girls about how much earning potential you gain by having specific degrees. just so they understand that some people may become the star may go play the sport but the vast majority of us are can have to work. in different ways and we can follow our passions and work in a different way through understanding the conditions of poverty that i found most problematic are not the concentration. i've always believed that having it is not necessarily
bad. it is that resources in absence of resources that is bad. when we talk about making sure that they are whole and safe we had tended to talk about that you must have integration when what we must have as an equal investment it should always come with the ability to choose where you want to live so that you are not relegated to a specific community. it's important for us to understand that it can exist and not be ghetto. and we can have spaces where there is a consciousness that's about uplift in community not about the bad hustle.
both historically to fuel historical trauma as well as contemporary conditions that might inform how we move. and what resources are available to schools and what they are able to do with our children it's all pieces that we need to continue to examine. that's not it. but we have to have a much more according to discussion corny to discussion about how we fund education in this country how we are moving forward both in the policy papers that have been produced in this book. >> i could be selfish and just ask my questions all night. i want to learn as much as i can in the time that i have.
i know you would love the opportunity to ask questions. if you want to ask a question please go to the mic. my name is leslie and don and i work in the office of equity. what about the girls. two i've been pushing to do this. just a couple of things. we've launched out young woman's program. i met joanne smith i meant to
them. it feels good. if you like we are on the right path. about how that universities are preparing teachers. we are descended upon every year by thousands of people with bright lights. the college programs that are getting at. are there any best practices for new york city to go take a look at. first, i think you are uplifting and names that should be uplifted in this conversation. it is happening here in new york. i think it's very promising. that deserves greater uplift. it's very important work that they are doing.
they have not emphasized to the extent possible that should be emphasized caring and leading with love. when i talk to girls about what they are is less judgment and more love. what is your recommendation. probably the most radical thing that i say. lead with love. engage her. that said i think there are emerging practices happening around the country. districts that are having conversations now about developing collaboratives. one of the free if not the only in the country that is looking to do that. and bring in partners and had a critical direction for that work.
i am also working with a host of organizations we have a partnership with a local community college and an organization in specializes with girls. to develop an educational pilot reentry program for girls. and so in that space is really rooted in liberation in the constructing oppression. a field radical to say that's what we have to do. to their well-being and to engage in this healing process. it's one thing that they will tell us. it feels like the foam mattress that is tailored to you. but when i took that to mean
was we are wrapping ourselves around her. that is what young people are thirsting for. there are other districts hickman mills has been having a series of conversations about a series of ways to interrogate their own and internalize the bias. there are different districts around the country that are not only engaging in the full continuum there are also the kinds of faculty engagement around understand the simplicity bias. >> good evening. thank you for this really important book. i think it's exciting that
we're having this conversation. it breaks all of the stereotypes of what it is. my question is around the concept of sexuality and it is specifically for those of afrin caribbean dissent. we grow being exposed to what most americans conceive and that kind of thing. and then you come here and then things that aren't necessarily always sexualized in our culture become that way here. it's things that i think there is a lot of discussion going on.
but the tension that evolves in terms of how you step into womanhood. maintaining modesty and where all of that meets here in you see it played out. what are your thoughts on that and then tying that into the historical racial slavery of how they had been sexualized. i think what's important about this discussion the ways in which have been framing around her own identities.
it's very important for us to develop new spaces for us to take that conversation back. need to have the kind of critical a dialogue that a lot of them are having around these very same questions. around how bodies are presented. how are we receiving bodies how are we interpreting the dance. it comes from traditional african dance. there is a time and place for it all. people are activists who are trying to reclaim any challenge for a way they had
been normalized to white middle-class standards. and how that plays out in our conversations about risk. there is a space for us to continue to head conversations about these things because i do could see very young girls who want to embrace their own sexuality who want to participate in that domain in ways and with people that place them at harm. because we have not had that critical discussions. how you are doing and all those things. the healing power suggests that we tell our stories about that. i think beyoncé does do a good job of doing that. if you travel more you would
see it. it's not about a constructive sexualization of black black women who were deeply oppressed that we still continue to live out. about our bodies and the use in functionality in society but also how we are perfectly human and can embrace our sexuality as a part of that. >> good evening. thank you for your voice into your activity in the world the really pressing the first question where were you in 1987 and i will explain that so no one gets the wrong idea
or anything. that's when i was hired by the new york city of education and everybody said you will never get a job because you're an actor and you have a no one needs that. and i said i bet i get a job. i said where he went to work. like i was wanting to ask that. i wanted to work with the kids that nobody else in new york city wants to work with. he sort of laughed at me. he didn't know that i had grown up in boys town. he said how would you like to work at a school called rosewood. my first job was at rosewood high school. i worked there for three years with girls and women between the ages of 60 and 65.
was what was presented to me the training program all that was was me showing up for work happy not to be a struggling actor anymore and having health benefits and all of that. in engaging with these stories every single story that they don't want to talk about. they all wanted to talk about prostitution violence i was deconstructed it was like a death process. i went home crying every night. i kept on wanting to come back because i knew something really important for myself what was happening we identified with each other because we identified with each other's pain and loneliness i think maybe i'm
asking the kind of questionnaire it's connected to one of my questions. there is a right mail who came out and started working as a principal and started jumping up with the meetings. they came from all walks of life but they didn't seem to be willing to talk about any of these issues what's my role. how can i help without having my had pop or without having a semi- tell me that the only reason i can say this is because i have some kind of entitlement they don't know where i came from either. where do i fit in in this dialogue because for me it's a very real world. if you could talk a little bit about it you coined this term we had been talking about the school to confinement pipeline.
it rings very true with me. >> think you. couple of things there is a body of growing research for people who need that about the value of empathy in schools. among teachers and educators working with children. stanford has produced a group of studies that has been effective with working with black boys and girls. so engaging through empathy as opposed engaging through punishment is a new direction in the place were all of us can enter. the ways in which girls respond to the question about who they want to lead them as important to have people around you who look like look like you are come from similar experience something we should
never undermine the opportunity to engage into diversification and exposure to individuals. at the same time what's most important is at the educators and individuals show that they care do we care is really simple. they check out when they feel like there is no one there engaging with them in a way that can reinforce their promise to talk about this as opposed to school to it was to narrow a framework.
when we talk about prison. certainly engages all of us when the need and desire to respond for many of our girls they haven't experienced present -- prison. the confinement in schools in the tension facilities that there are ways in which we have talked about this phenomenon would you think about this. i don't do that. i think it's important for us to think about this identity that many girls do have once they have children when there's lots of young mothers
fighting a consistent because i have a child should not impact whether they could continue to go to school. districts there are. they continue to finish them are are not supposed to be discriminated against. however, making decisions and searching for love and try to form relationships with individuals the impact mobility and opportunities to move freely certainly play a role in this conversation. let girls be a part of constructing their own narratives rather than us is
>> i will start with the second one. i think it plays out differently throughout the country and we are still building out the research that can answer that with some degree of integrity. there is a constant narrative that has been following by girls in rural and urban spaces the dichotomy crossed the high performer and the girl who is not worth our time. there is this way in which it gives both groups that.
what i'm recognizing in our work now in many spaces because they are now more segregated than they were in those two decades that you named in fact the 80s is like the height of integration as we saw and now there is a separation occurring where many of the children there is not there is not the distance occurring but there is this way in which it is a reinforcement of internalized oppression. it speaks to the prevailing consciousness and the ways in which we are talking about bias and sexual oppression and racial oppression. i start in the book the way in
which black people had had to deal with the consciousness. never at any point no matter any other bearable do they stop being black, female and american. we have to confront the identities in which they play out. i've head. degrees of access. it certainly welcome the access. there are opportunities for us to talk through. i have received a lot of invitations and from some elected officials who want to explore their policy i feel like we are at the very beginning of that. there is a lot more to be done.
my question is as a black male how can i appropriately engage my fellow brothers and homey's on these issues and also how can i gauge my brothers unbecoming better advocates. that is an important question. the follow up follow-up on that spirit is to actually just do it engage. the healing work is also necessary with the boys. much as how we have talked about it has been around how we create a culture of masculinity that centers them in a way that if you don't
address it with our engagement in each other. and i just talked about in general. it needs to be about more than safety as it is framed in our current construct around violence particularly at the hand of state and public faces. and the ways in which we are participating in that violence in our speech and our construction of norms and then how we will engage with each other. the boys programs occurring in the schools. that's way to have a program nobody cares about you. i can't believe you said that to me.
we were the ones with the problem and it was problematic for him to say nobody cares about you what she did in response was to create a girls group and start the program for herself. we will fix it. it was a very micra way of engaging around this. there has to be new communications and new ways of understanding relationships and honoring of our partnerships and shared experience in this work. i'm hopeful that with push out and other projects we will have more bridges spaces where we can have conversations about communities and shared experiences and things that are different in those spaces. the first thing is when information is surfacing i see
see the opportunity. it's your turn. hello everyone. i currently work in the organization where we pretty much teach them. we teach students how to comprehend create and ultimately challenge media. i'm the only one in my organization. i'm very and i'm used to being an advocate. primarily girls a lot of them dealing with push out
situations. what exactly do you mean is a beautiful thing. i want there to be a critical examination of imaging symbolism, i think there has to be in discussions about how bodies are presented on television and in ads in the constructed in means. we have to get to get what the young people are constructed. what is real. and to understand the conditions that underlie that that had supported the narratives that are harmful in my community. there is an absence particularly among girls in being able to see images of themselves that are not very sexual. they see images of themselves that are not angry in ways
that do engage their voice. historically that is what has sustained her well-being. and understanding that as a critical part of our existence. active in being in the spaces. it is an act of resistance and justice. have to understand that being in the spaces where they are perceived and constructed as absent makes their presence and act of justice. they have not engaged in some of the critical thinking activity about narrative. about deconstructing norms
about understanding where these ideas in the historical roots of some of these ideas. my only certain stories get told and not others. what is the process for the storytelling to occur. where is the breakdown. thinking about all of these. in understanding how others reenact aspects that are inconsistent with our lived experiences. they are actually really demeaning or insulting. you have to be able to differentiate. i think any curriculum you're developing and any ideas for ways of talking to young people about those things are very valuable. how to actually teach them how to construct their own narrative. have asked questions that they feel are being asked.
what is missing from this presentation. how would you approach this very same issue that may be from a different experience. the more we center the experiences of young people especially with black girls who are often not involved in the construction of stories and in the construction of the narrative the better we are able to build the capacity. i would just like to express that. i'm so charged up and fired. it also makes me think about my favorite quote to whom much is given much is required. i want you to know the gift you have given to me and when i can take that likely. i inspired to do greater work. i think you for that gift. we would also like to just think the dr. they created the
space for this very important dialogue. for being so engaged and i know the great work that you will do moving forward. we want to hear from you with a final thought. >> my final thought is really simple. one of the things i hope they take from this entire discussion is that we develop a robust gender browned as an idea that their sacred and loved. i'm an ask everyone to say out loud black girls are sacred and loved. >> please join me in thanking dr. morris.
please join us. if you like to get a book and have it signed. [indiscernible] you are watching book tv on c-span two. every weekend book tv television for serious readers. and on book tv this weekend on our afterwards program the former attorney general remembers his time in the george w. bush administration
you will hear from political cartoonist. they discuss the work. plus a look at the lessons that they learned during the first year in office and how new york city was helpful and hurtful to the union during the civil war. into the positive and negative aspects of studying abroad. now that is just a few of the programs you will see this weekend. for complete television schedule gutted to book tv.org. forty-eight hours of nonfiction books and authors. television for serious readers. conservative activists. he passed away last week at the age of 92.
also offered over 25 books on topics that ranged from range from america's nuclear strategy during the cold war and the harms of the feminist movement. the final book published last week and co-authored with ed martin lays out a conservative case. here she is in 2003 on our in-depth program discussing the release of her first book a choice not an echo. >> you remember kennedy was assassinated in late november. and i was at that president of the illinois federation of republican women. beginning in december it just seems inappropriate to give the standard speech.